[udarrell]

Originally Posted by driftlessbamboo

Wow!,
I don't even know where to begin. I pretty much disagree with everything you wrote. I guess the only thing I agree with is the case you made for the .243 Win. And I don't agree with that carte blanche.

That .243 will indeed kill any deer that walks the Wisconsin woods as long as one keeps range in mind and never takes an iffy shot which in my experience many "hunters" will try. Putting that little 100 gr bullet through a ham on its way to the vitals at long range is a certain recipe for a crippled deer.
I can see the need for a "bottom end caliber for deer but what is your reasoning behind limiting the size at the "top end?"

Hitting a shoulder does not mean a lost deer when bow hunting.

That was ('perhaps errantly') stated recently on a bow hunting TV program by the bow hunter who also stated that he lost the shoulder arrowed deer shown in that video.)

I have blown all the way through deer after hitting the shoulder with a broadhead tipped arrow. Very quick recovery with both lungs ventilated. A gut shot deer that may be lost is lost generally due to lazyness of the hunter. A deer shot in the gut will still die in a fairly short time if the hunter does not push the animal. Best to wait overnight as it is likely that the animal will lay down within 150 yards of the shot and expire.
The same can be said of a gut shot deer hit with a rifle bullet. To say that the blame of a lost deer is "solely the result of" shooting it with the wrong weapon is lunacy. (I agree.)

BTW the reason a deer ducks, as you say, is not to avoid an arrow. This is called jumping the string. It is in fact the deer beginning to run away. As the deer hears a loud noise, in order for the animal to run it drops to begin its flight to "load" the muscles for its first bound. The reason for this is that the archer (Right-on, I was aware of that.)
A) is shooting a noisy bow that he should have quieted during practice.
B) the archer is shooting at an already alert deer.

Finally to say that every state would have fewer wounded deer if they simply adopted the use of centerfire rifles.......Man, you are kidding right?

Just because someone is carrying a .30-06 instead of a 12 guage does nothing to make them a more ethical hunter. Which if we really examine the "lost deer" question is undoubtedly the biggest reason we have "lost" deer to begin with.

I'm not saying that sometimes there are variables that can lead to a poorly placed shot. What I am saying is that if rifle hunters got their rifles out of the cabinet more than a week a year and actually practiced shooting we would have fewer crippled up deer running around the deer woods. (You are right-on!)

There are ethical hunters in every genre of deer hunters and there are also meatheads in each. But I will say I've never seen a group of bowhunters standing around behind a truck flinging arrows at a running deer 700 yards away as it heads for parts unknown. I can't say the same regarding rifle hunters.

The reason people are shot during gun season has absolutely nothing to do with which weapon one carries into the woods. It is all about common sence and basic hunter safety.(Very True.)

I am also in Wisconsin are you actually saying we don't have any instance of hunters being shot?

I'm saying they were not shot because of the longer range of the center fire rifles.

How many hunters were shot during the gun season in Wisconsin over the last ten years?
How many hunters were shot by bow hunters?

My response to driftlessbamboo.

My post was to illicit a response, however, you have far exceeded my expectation & you deserve a plaque or trophy!

I agree with nearly all of your well reasoned statements. You are a credit to the sport of deer hunting. - Darrell

[dwalkerman]

Driftlessbamboo....is dead on!! I agree....good statements based on alot of experience!!! BTW....Driftless...are you a fly fisherman?? I live on the Little Red River in Arkansas.....huge!!!!....... brownies!~!~! Dana

[sarg]

udarrell, I don't agree with your thinking, and my neighbor state(OHIO) does not prmitt centerfire rifle use on deer. My other neighbor (IN) doedes permitt center fire this year as long as it's a staight case pistol bullet. .357, .44. etc.
I did notice that some state in the south permitts a single shot centerfire larger than a .38 cal during muzzle loading season. I believe it's LA.

[dwalkerman]

Sarg.....I am from LA now living in Arkansas...and yes LA does allow the use of some single shot breech loading rifles during the primitive weapons season. Those not allowed would be Ruger #1 and #3 with no exposed hammer, TC Contender or Encore Carbines and Mossberg SSi Single Shot Rifles with no exposed hammer. The list of firearms that is allowed includes trapdoor Springfields, Sharps, Remington rolling blocks, etc. You would have to go to LDWF website to get a complete list. LA also has long seasons, liberal limts as well as lots of choices of weapons. Us "coon asses" from the bayou country have always wondered about how it must be having 1 week seasons to gun hunt, restrictive limits and limited choices of weapons. I guess we got it lucky down here!!!! Dana

[udarrell]

Originally Posted by sarg

udarrell, I don't agree with your thinking, and my neighbor state (OHIO) does not permit centerfire rifle use on deer. My other neighbor (IN) does permit center fire this year as long as it's a straight case pistol bullet. .357, .44., etc.

I did notice that some state in the south permits a single shot centerfire larger than a .38 cal during muzzle loading season. I believe it's LA.

Pistols are a much greater risk of accidental shootings than a 22" inch or longer barrel rifle.

A shot gun slug or the heavy muzzleloader bullet will bounce around in the woods a lot more than a small bore frangible bullet.

I can load my 6mm rifles with bullets that will spend their force in a deer or most things that it would hit.

It is the big bore heavy bullets that are more prone to ricochet; those larger bullet cartridges shoot through deer & travel far beyond. Again, it is the construction of the bullet that is most important.

Regulating the caliber & bullet construction could allow those center fire rifles to be safely used along with the more dangerous pistols, muzzle-loaders & shotgun slugs.

My carpal tunnel hands won't permit the use of a muzzle loader & I have a neck vertebra problem that will not tolerate the recoil of a shotgun.

Pistols & revolvers are out of the question (for me) for too many reasons to mention here.

I can load 6mm bullets for my 243-WIN & 243/06 Wildcat that will NOT ricochet nor shoot through a deer on a broadside chest lung shot.

I don't take a deer on a ridge where there is no backstop, unless it is a sure shot!
There is NO threat to anyone or anything with my load combination & shot choices; it's much safer than any of the other legal weapons!

Human safety is what counts; my weaponry combination is much safer than any of the legal reg options! Check my updated profile. - Darrell - udarrell

[driftlessbamboo]

I'm on my way out to the deer woods right now. I'm taking my .58 Hawken rifle.

[driftlessbamboo]

Originally Posted by dwalkerman

Driftlessbamboo....is dead on!! I agree....good statements based on alot of experience!!! BTW....Driftless...are you a fly fisherman?? I live on the Little Red River in Arkansas.....huge!!!!....... brownies!~!~! Dana

Dana,
How cool is that? I've heard stories of the monsters that come out of that river.
I am a fly angler. I also do a bit of freelance guiding, as often as my "real job" allows.

Also happy to report I didn't shoot anyone today. (smiles)

[boltman13]

I have killed either whittail or mule deer in Indiana, Wyoming, or Colorado. I have used a 30-06, 30-30, 257 Roberts, 243 Win, or 50 cal TC Renigade with 385 gr Buffalo Bullet. All but one died in the place they stood or in 2-3 steps, except one muley doe who went about 40 yards after a lung shot with a 100 gr Siera Game King from a 243 Win. She was dead when I got to her. Put a good bullet in the right place, and you get one dead deer. They have no armor, and will seldom go far if hit in the proper place. I no longer own the 243 but would not hesitate to use one in the future with the proper bullet. The 30-30 is a joy to carry all day up and down the draws and is all I need out to 150 yards. When I get my Ranching for Wildlife Muley tag, if I live long enough, I plan to use my 30-06 and Nosler 165 gr Partitions for a once in a life time chance at a trophy buck.

[dwalkerman]

Originally Posted by driftlessbamboo

Dana,
How cool is that? I've heard stories of the monsters that come out of that river.
I am a fly angler. I also do a bit of freelance guiding, as often as my "real job" allows.

Also happy to report I didn't shoot anyone today. (smiles)

Hey Driftless...........give me a shout dwalker824@comcast.net.....if ever headed this way....I'll show you some monsters!!!! I guide as well..............take care Dana

[Brinlee Ranch Hunts]

I have a Remington 700 BDL chambered in 25-06 that I have had for about 27 years that will shoot 1"MOA groups all day long. It has been a wonderful gun and really does a number on whitetails out to 300-400yds.